BtVS: Help
Oct. 16th, 2002 01:34 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
eruthrosBuffy. Willow. Xander. Dawn. The whole shebang.
I actually found this episode much more boring that it could have been. The concept was good, but it didn't really get played for tension.
The teaser seemed pretty much unrelated to the rest of the ep; was there any point to the mortuary-casket-vamp slayage that anyone else can think of? The whole "one vamp at a time. That's the only way I know how" seems like it could pop up later, but other than that, why? No entiendo.
Still irked at the presentation of Willow v. Spike. Willow committed sins while souled and nearly destroyed the world. A little skinning, and everything's forgiven. Not that she shouldn't be forgiven, but not like that; that's a clumsy way to try and make us think "oh, Willow's suffered, it's all okay now." Blech, I say to that. Spike, otoh, committed sins while a vampire. Now he has a soul. This should make him a parallel to Angel, and Buffy had no problem at all separated souled/unsouled Angel into two distinct people and not even needing to forgive the first for the sins of the second because in her mind they were different people. You could argue that she also lets it go because Angel paid, with the whole thousand years in hell, but it's portrayed more like the first scenario. Spike doesn't get this distinction, and he doesn't get automatically forgiven or even forgiven after undergoing torment (like the cross or the insanity. I know people aren't consistent, but I think this was supposed to make us feel sympathetic to Willow, and it doesn't.
Souled Willow chose to try to destroy the world. Desouled Spike, one could argue, has more limited options and still fought against them; even though he didn't understand, maybe, he tried to get his soul back. He chose his soul. This makes his case very different from Angel's, in my mind, and it irks me that everyone's all "Angel, Vamp of Prophecy, Will Become Human" when his whole soul-getting thingy was involuntary, and Spike's was voluntary. He's fucked up, and I'm not saying he's not of the bad. He's been a bastard, he left Buffy to die at the end of season 2, he kidnapped Willow in season 3, he's tried to bite and kill people, but I honestly think that Spike's still more human as a vamp that Angel is even as a human. (Though I never did like Angel, to be fair, even when seasons 1-3 were actually on.) I mean, as a soulless monster, Spike: falls in love. Is conflicted. Doesn't want the world to end. Likes soccer as well as killing people. Chooses a soul. Still a bastard, but an interesting and complicated bastard.
And I think that might be the problem, and why Buffy can't forgive him (or even decide that he doesn't need to be forgiven, as per Angel): his character isn't as clear cut good/bad as Angel was. Gotta say, though, I still think Angel's personality had to be showing through when he was soulless, as well, and it ain't purty. This is the vamp of legend? Pfui.
And yet: Spike knows he can't ask for forgiveness. That there's nothing he can say. Which makes it so much more interesting than Willow's "forgive me?" "we forgive you" blah. What does it say that it basically takes them a single ep to deal with Willow, the big bad from the last season, and if she can still get along with her friends, and they're on 7.04 and still on about Spike? Mostly, I think it explains why I find the Spike arc more interesting. His interactions with Willow, Anya, Buffy, and Xander, are more complicated. More fun. They've got more umph.
And this was supposed to be a brief thingy about today's ep. Clearly, it wasn't too fab, since I ended up all "issues of forgiveness and sin on Buffy" instead.
I actually found this episode much more boring that it could have been. The concept was good, but it didn't really get played for tension.
The teaser seemed pretty much unrelated to the rest of the ep; was there any point to the mortuary-casket-vamp slayage that anyone else can think of? The whole "one vamp at a time. That's the only way I know how" seems like it could pop up later, but other than that, why? No entiendo.
Still irked at the presentation of Willow v. Spike. Willow committed sins while souled and nearly destroyed the world. A little skinning, and everything's forgiven. Not that she shouldn't be forgiven, but not like that; that's a clumsy way to try and make us think "oh, Willow's suffered, it's all okay now." Blech, I say to that. Spike, otoh, committed sins while a vampire. Now he has a soul. This should make him a parallel to Angel, and Buffy had no problem at all separated souled/unsouled Angel into two distinct people and not even needing to forgive the first for the sins of the second because in her mind they were different people. You could argue that she also lets it go because Angel paid, with the whole thousand years in hell, but it's portrayed more like the first scenario. Spike doesn't get this distinction, and he doesn't get automatically forgiven or even forgiven after undergoing torment (like the cross or the insanity. I know people aren't consistent, but I think this was supposed to make us feel sympathetic to Willow, and it doesn't.
Souled Willow chose to try to destroy the world. Desouled Spike, one could argue, has more limited options and still fought against them; even though he didn't understand, maybe, he tried to get his soul back. He chose his soul. This makes his case very different from Angel's, in my mind, and it irks me that everyone's all "Angel, Vamp of Prophecy, Will Become Human" when his whole soul-getting thingy was involuntary, and Spike's was voluntary. He's fucked up, and I'm not saying he's not of the bad. He's been a bastard, he left Buffy to die at the end of season 2, he kidnapped Willow in season 3, he's tried to bite and kill people, but I honestly think that Spike's still more human as a vamp that Angel is even as a human. (Though I never did like Angel, to be fair, even when seasons 1-3 were actually on.) I mean, as a soulless monster, Spike: falls in love. Is conflicted. Doesn't want the world to end. Likes soccer as well as killing people. Chooses a soul. Still a bastard, but an interesting and complicated bastard.
And I think that might be the problem, and why Buffy can't forgive him (or even decide that he doesn't need to be forgiven, as per Angel): his character isn't as clear cut good/bad as Angel was. Gotta say, though, I still think Angel's personality had to be showing through when he was soulless, as well, and it ain't purty. This is the vamp of legend? Pfui.
And yet: Spike knows he can't ask for forgiveness. That there's nothing he can say. Which makes it so much more interesting than Willow's "forgive me?" "we forgive you" blah. What does it say that it basically takes them a single ep to deal with Willow, the big bad from the last season, and if she can still get along with her friends, and they're on 7.04 and still on about Spike? Mostly, I think it explains why I find the Spike arc more interesting. His interactions with Willow, Anya, Buffy, and Xander, are more complicated. More fun. They've got more umph.
And this was supposed to be a brief thingy about today's ep. Clearly, it wasn't too fab, since I ended up all "issues of forgiveness and sin on Buffy" instead.
