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eruthrosIn which we discuss:
1) how Peter DeLuise learned his scifi politics playing a genetically-engineered janitor on Seaquest. (Peter DeLuise directed, produced, and wrote various bits of Stargate SG-1 and SGA between 1999 and the end of season ten of SG-1.)
2) why some situations call for a B-Movie version of Lee Edelman.
3) the disconcerting correlations between characters who don't use contractions.
This is cleaned-up IM-discussion, meaning that it's full of playing with these topics rather than really fleshing them out.
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eruthros: OH SEAQUEST! You are like Star Trek: Underwater.
thingswithwings: seaquest is AWESOME. and has more DeLuise brothers than I thought it did.
eruthros: We discovered that!
eruthros: I remembered people like Seth Green.
eruthros: And totally forgot all the DeLuises. Because let's face it: I was in it for Jonathan Brandis as Lucas.
eruthros: I wrote drawerfic when I was twelve in which he was KIDNAPPED a lot.
eruthros: And Darwin had to SAVE him.
thingswithwings: oh man
thingswithwings: Lucas/Darwin OTP
eruthros: EXACTLY.
eruthros: Oh, Lucas/Darwin! They would be kidnapped! Underwater. Naturally. Otherwise Darwin couldn't save him.
eruthros: (Also, Dagwood kinda makes me sad. Except then I remember he is played by a DeLuise, and then I feel dirty inside.)
thingswithwings: right. the situation would unfold in such a way that everyone could use their unique skills to contribute to the solution.
eruthros: Precisely. Unique underwater swimming skills.
eruthros: (Oh my god, thingswithwings, I refuse to sympathize with a DeLuise. Any DeLuise. Especially Peter.)
thingswithwings: seriously. as if I've listened to audio commentaries of stargate atlantis episodes by the guy who used to be DAGWOOD.
thingswithwings: my life sucks.
eruthros: So does every fan's!
thingswithwings: and, kind of everyone everywhere, even though they don't know it.
eruthros: I mean, how can our life include listening to Dagwood telling us how syphilis is funny?
[Note:thingswithwings and I use Xander's "why do I always have to get the funny case of syphilis?" to shorthand "and then Rodney is put in a 'humorous' situation in which he is humiliated and punished in some way." Fannish crossovers make everything better!]
thingswithwings: oh GOD.
eruthros: I KNOW.
eruthros: It is a sign of ... apocalypse or something.
thingswithwings: or something.
eruthros: He played a super-strong idiot genetically engineered man on a scifi show that had crap ratings and reinvented itself every season.
eruthros: And now he plots our television show.
thingswithwings: AND WE WONDER WHY IT'S PROBLEMATIC.
eruthros: As you point out, this is exactly the answer to this question!
eruthros: He had camouflage skin!
eruthros: and no contractions!
thingswithwings: wow, it's all making sense now
thingswithwings: coming together like a beautiful crystal-clear racist picture
eruthros: How well put!
thingswithwings: dude
thingswithwings: you should post this to your lj
thingswithwings: it is hilarious
eruthros: In fact, his "race" of people?
eruthros: Was all evil and had to be locked up.
thingswithwings: right
thingswithwings: but they were originally engineered to be slaves, weren't they?
eruthros: They were INHUMAN because they couldn't have BABIES.
thingswithwings: or something?
eruthros: Yes, genetically engineered to be military dudes.
eruthros: But then they scared people.
eruthros: And also couldn't have babies.
thingswithwings: oh, fuck me.
eruthros: The first episode of season two?
eruthros: Features the GELF colony all "we can show them we are human now!"
eruthros: When the imprisoned woman who was implicitly raped by one of the prison guards has a baby.
eruthros: Now they have a FUTURE
eruthros: and must ESCAPE.
eruthros: For the BABY.
thingswithwings: I am vomiting in my mouth a little right now
eruthros: You're welcome.
thingswithwings: just thought I'd share
eruthros: "they made us to fight."
eruthros: "but now we can be fathers and mothers!"
eruthros: "let us lead our children into the future without fear!"
thingswithwings: STOP IT
thingswithwings: IT HURTS ME IN MY SOUL
eruthros: I cannot page enough Lee Edelman here.
eruthros: I mean, I basically need a Lee Edelman B-movie at this point, you know?
eruthros: Like, Revenge of the Fifty-Foot Lee Edelman.
thingswithwings: hahahaha
thingswithwings: that is AWESOME
thingswithwings: and oh, so necessary.
-- Digression in which we discuss Oscar Wilde, Judith Butler, and classwork. Or possibly the Seaquest was a digression from that in the first place.
eruthros: Man. Also the DeLuise kid who plays the guy with gills? He is tiny. Younger than I am now I bet.
thingswithwings: I liked him! he was my favourite.
eruthros: thingswithwings!
eruthros: He is a DeLuise!
eruthros: You can't admit that now!
thingswithwings: I KNOW TELL NO ONE [Note: she made me put this back in. She said she thought it was funny: "I am totally the kind of girl to sacrifice my dignity for a cheap laugh."]
eruthros: That's like saying you have sex with sheep. Only worse.
thingswithwings: he wasn't my favourite in a sexy way!
thingswithwings: I just liked him cuz he was disenfranchised.
eruthros: Totally. Disenfranchised and experimented on.
thingswithwings: actually, wasn't he an ex-prisoner who had been a medical experiment done by the govt?
thingswithwings: right.
thingswithwings: someone needs to write a Seaquest-was-fucking-creepy fic.
eruthros: "when I was in the can, they asked for volunteers, I raised my hand, that's how I got out early."
thingswithwings: fucking CREEPY
eruthros: Yeah.
eruthros: this show = problematic in many, many ways.
thingswithwings: there is so much genetic engineering going on on that show.
eruthros: For example, they have a telepath? But apparently she's allowed to tell people what she over...paths.
eruthros: She's always going "oh, imagining me naked, Lucas? oh, to be fifteen again!" in public.
-- Digression into Starsky and Hutch, the telepath on Seaquest as a Troi character, and other things as well.
eruthros: "there's no way to attempt reconciliation or understanding with something that came out of a test tube" says one of the generals.
thingswithwings: wow, sounds like something Rodney McKay said the other day.
thingswithwings: she's a collection of ones and zeros, she doesn't have consciousness!
eruthros: Yep.
thingswithwings: it's not weird in any way that we've manufactured a sentient robot in order to cause sentient robot genocide!
eruthros: That is from Seaquest, if that wasn't obvious.
thingswithwings: yeah, I got that.
eruthros: Not weird at all!
eruthros: Completely normal! says Rodney.
thingswithwings: that is totally where the Deluises learned their scifi politics.
eruthros: YES. It explains so much
thingswithwings: seriously. it does.
*** Later:
eruthros: Also, btw, can I just tell you something more about seaquest and paging Lee Edelman?
thingswithwings: TOTALLY
eruthros: Because, okay, I had forgotten this.
eruthros: But! The GELF dudes go off to hold the UEO leaders hostage, because now they have a FUTURE and must protect their BABIES and should be FREE.
thingswithwings: (I keep wanting to say, pity the gelf!)
eruthros: Only then they don't believe anybody because everybody's like "um... yeah... we'll totally do that."
thingswithwings: of course they become terrorists. then the UEO have no CHOICE but violence.
eruthros: So then they go and decide to destroy lots of oxygen plants because they need less oxygen than normal humans so destroying the oxygen plants will leave a world for only GELF.
eruthros: The Paging Doctor Edelman part?
thingswithwings: yes?
eruthros: Is the part where, honest to god, the stupid telepathic doctor discovers that their BABY
eruthros: who makes them HUMAN
eruthros: needs as much oxygen as normal humans! Because of "spontaneous evolution!"
thingswithwings: SHIIIIIIIIT
eruthros: So DAGWOOD carries the baby to them (for complicated reasons, the baby is on Seaquest, whatever) and is all "this baby breathes air like a human! you must stop being terrorists and fighting for your own political gain because it will kill your future!"
thingswithwings: that is, just, jaw-droppingly AWFUL.
thingswithwings: and AWESOME.
eruthros: I KNOW
eruthros: I MEAN
eruthros: SPONTANEOUS EVOLUTION.
thingswithwings: how is the Edelman always so LITERAL?
eruthros: So that the baby is what makes them human and turns them into productive citizens.
eruthros: (Because then they turn themselves in, see. To save the baaaaaby.)
thingswithwings: who acquiesce to the rule of law.
thingswithwings: dude
thingswithwings: I mean, dude.
eruthros: EXACTLY! Bridger negotiates their "freedom" only on the grounds that they now follow the laws of the state!
eruthros: SERIOUSLY.
thingswithwings: that is insane.
thingswithwings: you need to stop watching seaquest, buddy
thingswithwings: it is going to make you sad
eruthros: The baaaaaaaby brings them into the category human, drives them to their terrorism, but then ultimately rescues them from the terrorism and returns them to the rule of law by reminding them of future humanity.
eruthros: Shut up. *frowny face*
thingswithwings: hey, I mean, do what you like, but I worry about you.
eruthros: There is an episode where Mark Hamill plays a blind alien, thingswithwings!
eruthros: How can that be wrong?
thingswithwings: HAHAHA
thingswithwings: I DON'T KNOW
thingswithwings: YOUR ARGUMENT IS CONVINCING.
1) how Peter DeLuise learned his scifi politics playing a genetically-engineered janitor on Seaquest. (Peter DeLuise directed, produced, and wrote various bits of Stargate SG-1 and SGA between 1999 and the end of season ten of SG-1.)
2) why some situations call for a B-Movie version of Lee Edelman.
3) the disconcerting correlations between characters who don't use contractions.
This is cleaned-up IM-discussion, meaning that it's full of playing with these topics rather than really fleshing them out.
eruthros: OH SEAQUEST! You are like Star Trek: Underwater.thingswithwings: seaquest is AWESOME. and has more DeLuise brothers than I thought it did.eruthros: We discovered that!eruthros: I remembered people like Seth Green.eruthros: And totally forgot all the DeLuises. Because let's face it: I was in it for Jonathan Brandis as Lucas. eruthros: I wrote drawerfic when I was twelve in which he was KIDNAPPED a lot.eruthros: And Darwin had to SAVE him.thingswithwings: oh manthingswithwings: Lucas/Darwin OTPeruthros: EXACTLY.eruthros: Oh, Lucas/Darwin! They would be kidnapped! Underwater. Naturally. Otherwise Darwin couldn't save him.eruthros: (Also, Dagwood kinda makes me sad. Except then I remember he is played by a DeLuise, and then I feel dirty inside.)thingswithwings: right. the situation would unfold in such a way that everyone could use their unique skills to contribute to the solution.eruthros: Precisely. Unique underwater swimming skills.eruthros: (Oh my god, thingswithwings, I refuse to sympathize with a DeLuise. Any DeLuise. Especially Peter.)thingswithwings: seriously. as if I've listened to audio commentaries of stargate atlantis episodes by the guy who used to be DAGWOOD.thingswithwings: my life sucks.eruthros: So does every fan's! thingswithwings: and, kind of everyone everywhere, even though they don't know it.eruthros: I mean, how can our life include listening to Dagwood telling us how syphilis is funny? [Note:
thingswithwings and I use Xander's "why do I always have to get the funny case of syphilis?" to shorthand "and then Rodney is put in a 'humorous' situation in which he is humiliated and punished in some way." Fannish crossovers make everything better!]thingswithwings: oh GOD.eruthros: I KNOW.eruthros: It is a sign of ... apocalypse or something.thingswithwings: or something.eruthros: He played a super-strong idiot genetically engineered man on a scifi show that had crap ratings and reinvented itself every season.eruthros: And now he plots our television show.thingswithwings: AND WE WONDER WHY IT'S PROBLEMATIC.eruthros: As you point out, this is exactly the answer to this question!eruthros: He had camouflage skin!eruthros: and no contractions!thingswithwings: wow, it's all making sense nowthingswithwings: coming together like a beautiful crystal-clear racist pictureeruthros: How well put!thingswithwings: dudethingswithwings: you should post this to your ljthingswithwings: it is hilariouseruthros: In fact, his "race" of people?eruthros: Was all evil and had to be locked up.thingswithwings: rightthingswithwings: but they were originally engineered to be slaves, weren't they?eruthros: They were INHUMAN because they couldn't have BABIES.thingswithwings: or something?eruthros: Yes, genetically engineered to be military dudes.eruthros: But then they scared people.eruthros: And also couldn't have babies.thingswithwings: oh, fuck me. eruthros: The first episode of season two?eruthros: Features the GELF colony all "we can show them we are human now!"eruthros: When the imprisoned woman who was implicitly raped by one of the prison guards has a baby.eruthros: Now they have a FUTUREeruthros: and must ESCAPE.eruthros: For the BABY.thingswithwings: I am vomiting in my mouth a little right noweruthros: You're welcome.thingswithwings: just thought I'd shareeruthros: "they made us to fight."eruthros: "but now we can be fathers and mothers!"eruthros: "let us lead our children into the future without fear!"thingswithwings: STOP ITthingswithwings: IT HURTS ME IN MY SOULeruthros: I cannot page enough Lee Edelman here.eruthros: I mean, I basically need a Lee Edelman B-movie at this point, you know?eruthros: Like, Revenge of the Fifty-Foot Lee Edelman.thingswithwings: hahahahathingswithwings: that is AWESOMEthingswithwings: and oh, so necessary.-- Digression in which we discuss Oscar Wilde, Judith Butler, and classwork. Or possibly the Seaquest was a digression from that in the first place.
eruthros: Man. Also the DeLuise kid who plays the guy with gills? He is tiny. Younger than I am now I bet.thingswithwings: I liked him! he was my favourite. eruthros: thingswithwings!eruthros: He is a DeLuise! eruthros: You can't admit that now! thingswithwings: I KNOW TELL NO ONE [Note: she made me put this back in. She said she thought it was funny: "I am totally the kind of girl to sacrifice my dignity for a cheap laugh."]eruthros: That's like saying you have sex with sheep. Only worse. thingswithwings: he wasn't my favourite in a sexy way!thingswithwings: I just liked him cuz he was disenfranchised.eruthros: Totally. Disenfranchised and experimented on.thingswithwings: actually, wasn't he an ex-prisoner who had been a medical experiment done by the govt?thingswithwings: right.thingswithwings: someone needs to write a Seaquest-was-fucking-creepy fic.eruthros: "when I was in the can, they asked for volunteers, I raised my hand, that's how I got out early."thingswithwings: fucking CREEPYeruthros: Yeah.eruthros: this show = problematic in many, many ways.thingswithwings: there is so much genetic engineering going on on that show.eruthros: For example, they have a telepath? But apparently she's allowed to tell people what she over...paths.eruthros: She's always going "oh, imagining me naked, Lucas? oh, to be fifteen again!" in public. -- Digression into Starsky and Hutch, the telepath on Seaquest as a Troi character, and other things as well.
eruthros: "there's no way to attempt reconciliation or understanding with something that came out of a test tube" says one of the generals.thingswithwings: wow, sounds like something Rodney McKay said the other day.thingswithwings: she's a collection of ones and zeros, she doesn't have consciousness!eruthros: Yep.thingswithwings: it's not weird in any way that we've manufactured a sentient robot in order to cause sentient robot genocide!eruthros: That is from Seaquest, if that wasn't obvious.thingswithwings: yeah, I got that.eruthros: Not weird at all!eruthros: Completely normal! says Rodney.thingswithwings: that is totally where the Deluises learned their scifi politics.eruthros: YES. It explains so muchthingswithwings: seriously. it does.*** Later:
eruthros: Also, btw, can I just tell you something more about seaquest and paging Lee Edelman?thingswithwings: TOTALLYeruthros: Because, okay, I had forgotten this.eruthros: But! The GELF dudes go off to hold the UEO leaders hostage, because now they have a FUTURE and must protect their BABIES and should be FREE.thingswithwings: (I keep wanting to say, pity the gelf!)eruthros: Only then they don't believe anybody because everybody's like "um... yeah... we'll totally do that."thingswithwings: of course they become terrorists. then the UEO have no CHOICE but violence.eruthros: So then they go and decide to destroy lots of oxygen plants because they need less oxygen than normal humans so destroying the oxygen plants will leave a world for only GELF.eruthros: The Paging Doctor Edelman part?thingswithwings: yes?eruthros: Is the part where, honest to god, the stupid telepathic doctor discovers that their BABYeruthros: who makes them HUMANeruthros: needs as much oxygen as normal humans! Because of "spontaneous evolution!"thingswithwings: SHIIIIIIIITeruthros: So DAGWOOD carries the baby to them (for complicated reasons, the baby is on Seaquest, whatever) and is all "this baby breathes air like a human! you must stop being terrorists and fighting for your own political gain because it will kill your future!"thingswithwings: that is, just, jaw-droppingly AWFUL.thingswithwings: and AWESOME.eruthros: I KNOWeruthros: I MEANeruthros: SPONTANEOUS EVOLUTION.thingswithwings: how is the Edelman always so LITERAL?eruthros: So that the baby is what makes them human and turns them into productive citizens.eruthros: (Because then they turn themselves in, see. To save the baaaaaby.)thingswithwings: who acquiesce to the rule of law.thingswithwings: dudethingswithwings: I mean, dude.eruthros: EXACTLY! Bridger negotiates their "freedom" only on the grounds that they now follow the laws of the state!eruthros: SERIOUSLY.thingswithwings: that is insane.thingswithwings: you need to stop watching seaquest, buddythingswithwings: it is going to make you saderuthros: The baaaaaaaby brings them into the category human, drives them to their terrorism, but then ultimately rescues them from the terrorism and returns them to the rule of law by reminding them of future humanity.eruthros: Shut up. *frowny face*thingswithwings: hey, I mean, do what you like, but I worry about you.eruthros: There is an episode where Mark Hamill plays a blind alien, thingswithwings!eruthros: How can that be wrong?thingswithwings: HAHAHAthingswithwings: I DON'T KNOWthingswithwings: YOUR ARGUMENT IS CONVINCING.
