brief doctor who speculation

[eruthros]

I had this idea last night and I just have to share:


River: she kills a good man, the best man she's ever known.

River doesn't kill the Doctor, of course - he isn't the best man she's ever known.

She kills Rory.

Like, the whole point of this episode is that the Doctor isn't a good man (he has to have rules) - the title isn't about him, really, it's about Rory going to war. So. Rory: he's a good man. (He's not a warrior, he's a nurse.)

And now that he's her dad, who her mom told her stories about when she was just a baby, who's always going to look for her, it's easier to image him as the best man she's ever known. Plus her reaction to Rory at the beginning of the episode in the Centurion outfit, which strongly implies that he's dead already in her timeline. Plus it just feels right. Plus it's that kind of misdirection Stephen Moffat seems to like, where we're told told the truth and it leads to the wrong conclusion.

Also I keep forgetting to get or make Amy and River and Eleven icons, which is sad.

Comments

[monanotlisa]

I would say, Naaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!, what with the Doctor-killing buildup...but hmm, this:

her reaction to Rory at the beginning of the episode in the Centurion outfit, which strongly implies that he's dead already in her timeline.

Rings very true.

[monanotlisa]

(Also, I guess there is no law against River killing both her father and the Doctor, with good reasons each time, of course -- doubly whammies are in fact a bit of a specialty of the Moff, see the latest ep.)

[eruthros]

It just feels so Stephen Moffat-y to me!

[monanotlisa]

Somewhat shockingly, I know exactly what you mean...

[arch]

This makes so much sense, although it gives me ALL THE SADS.

[eruthros]

Yeah! Poor River, and poor Rory, and poor everyone's OT3s and OT4s.

[aria]

I find this very likely!

MOFFAT, STOP KILLING RORY. :(

[eruthros]

Well, it just seems like eventually he'll want to make it stick!

[trouble]

Oh gosh, yes. I was speculating back a few weeks ago that the season break was going to involve a maybe "Dead for real" Rory, (or at least dead for a few episodes, again) because of all the "They Keep Killing Rory" going on, but I think you're right.

(That was my first thought. "Oh gosh, River's seen Rory die." Later on I thought "Oh, this is the first time she's seen him this young in her timeline" after the reveal of him being her father." But yes, I think you're right about her killing him.)

Well. It's good to know the fic I started last night is going to be Jossed come Autumn. I better get that finished.

[eruthros]

Ohhhh, you're right, they do keep killing Rory! Yeah, the dead for real Rory at the end of the season seems totally in line with that.

I'm sorry you're Jossed! I imagine that everyone who's writing something with River Song in it is probably shaking their fist at Stephen Moffat right now.

[trouble]

I'm not! I just need to finish it by the end of August and then post it and then everyone will love it because it is all about River Song and her adventures in Grad School and then I will get cookies from people when it is Jossed pretty much immediately.

:D She goes on adventures across space & time.

[eruthros]

That sounds like a great story! I look forward to it.

[anatsuno]

This makes so much sense :( :( :(

[eruthros]

It does, doesn't it :(

[catecumen]

I like this, and it does make sense to me, especially with her reaction this time. What's your theory about River's not-very-escape-proof prison? Although she keeps coming back, nobody seems to be trying all that hard to keep her from escaping again, which suggests that she's actually expected to escape and knows that and plays along. What do you think that's all about?

[eruthros]

I don't know! I think it's telling that she's basically keeping herself in prison - she could leave and stay gone at any point, but she doesn't, which suggests that she does feel remorse, maybe that she feels more guilty than other people think she is.

[rheanna]

Ooooh, brilliant theory. Moffat does love misdirection, and we're obviously *meant* to think River kills the Doctor.

[eruthros]

Yes! It does just seem too simple to me, that a line so obviously about the doctor would actually be about the doctor :)

[pocketmouse]

Ever since River said she'd killed a good man, I've been waffling back and forth on whether it's Rory or the Doctor or someone else. I finally decided it wasn't Rory because she didn't recognize him in The Pandorica Opens, and if she'd killed him she'd recognize him, but then I realized only about a week ago that of course, that was still part of the timeline where Rory never existed, so that could be why she didn't recognize him.

Still, there's a good part of me that doesn't think Doctor Who would ever get away with endorsing patricide, and also I'm still rather suspicious of the fact that while River is supposedly in jail for killing this man, she doesn't seem at all remorseful -- swanning in and out of prison to go have adventures doesn't sound like what you'd expect from someone who truly thought that the person was actually a great man. So I'm basically biting my lip and trying to hold off on speculating too much, and writing as much fic as I can before I'll probably have to apply personal retcon to the series finale.

[anatsuno]

but you can be guilty of killing a good man without being "guilty" of it, if you know what I mean - think, er, Dumbledore's death for example. She could have been the cause of that death in many different ways that would leave her distraught but not like, make her a terrible killer-type *feels inarticulates, hope you see what I mean*

[pocketmouse]

I get what you mean, but I think if she had killed Rory or the Doctor, I feel like she'd be more demonstrably remoseful in a way that precludes going ice skating on her birthday. If it appears that she's killed Rory or the Doctor and she's got to spend time in Stormcage to preserve the timeline, that I could buy.

[such_heights]

Yeah, I like this idea. We know she's in prison because she's keeping a promise to someone, so this would fit.

And and also time can be rewritten and everything's going to be FINE in the end. Which is the kind of thing I need to say to myself periodically when discussing the fate of the Ponds. They'll be FINE.

[pocketmouse]

Of course the Ponds will be fine! Fanfic said so!

[eruthros]

Yeah, that's my feeling! She kills Rory, but it's not out of malice or directed at him per se - like, she's raised to be a weapon of war against the Doctor, she's brainwashed and whatever, and she kills Rory. And then she learns he's her father, and then she meets him when he's younger and she's older, and etc - I think she has exactly the right kind of remorse for "I've done something awful, and even though I know that there were extenuating factors, I still feel awful about it."

[ironed_orchid]

The Good Man in the title makes sense, and oh, the opening scenes with Rory where fantastic...

(here via trouble)