I like everything but the non-traditional, non-normative, gross and icky stuff!

[eruthros]

Reading yuletide letters is generally a lot of fun; I get a sort of squishy fannish goodwill off most of them. But, well, here is the other part of reading lots of yuletide letters. I've pulled out some quotes about kink and loosely organized them into three general boundary-policiing themes behind the cuts, but they will otherwise be reproduced largely without comment:

Type 1: Normal and Not-Normal

In addition to that, I like most terrible kinky things with the exception of anything really gross or freaky.

Dislikes [...] gross or humilating sex acts (BASICALLY: no excrement, no bestiality)

My squicks include: incest, incest, and well, incest. Oh and the really gross stuff like necrophilia, golden showers, bestiality, scat-play, blood-play, pretty much... if it has a "play" attached, no thank you, seriously.

Beastiality, underage sex, and necrophilia are also out. Basically, just don't gross me out with those. Thanks!

And now, what squicks me: [...] Nasty BDSM. I am not into humiliation or hurt. I like my BDSM cooperative (both parties getting off) and fun-kinky, not "Oh, crap, what" kinky.

I have some surefire squicks: rimming. felching. traditional squicks (ie, scat, necro, watersports, etc).

I have the same basic squicks as most people (necro, scat, golden showers)

My lines are dub-con and non-con and really bizarre fetishes

Will Not Read: Just your basic common-sense boundaries, like scat, graphic and/or fetishized rape, necrophilia, that kind of thing.

I'm not fond of most "kinky" sort of things-- chan, incest, violence, the usual laundry list.

And if things get porny - plain ol' vanilla sex is great, but I'm not too easily squicked and I don't mind mild to moderate kinks (everything from toys, to food play, to mild BDSM). [...] Some things that are generally considered 'icky' ... probably best to avoid if you don't mind.

If you do decide to write some sex, please steer away from strange kinks.

I also prefer not to have any really out-there kinks.

Some general things I dislike: [...] Really out-there kinks.

I don't like character bashing, humiliation, excessive emo-ness or neediness, completely unhappy or hopeless endings or gratuitous over-kinkiness.

I'm not really fond of PWP, though. Except sub/dom. I don't know why, sub/dom is FUNNY.

[...] sex that requires a safe word or an instruction manual would probably also be better left for another day

As for what I DON'T want: BDSM or any type of kink that would require a warning

And please: no noncon, incest, chan, bestiality, or any kind of kink that requires its own warning.

Type 2: What Does That Even Mean?

It kind of goes without saying (to me) that since I didn't request NC-17 kinkfic, non-con or any of that extreme stuff, you won't be writing any, so listing any squicks feels kind of redundant. Like I could say "plz don't kill anybody" but hardly anybody gets an idea for the fic and that idea is "kill half the requested characters", you know?

Things I would really prefer not to read are rapefic, noncon, AUs, scat, mpreg, incest, anything more extreme than very light BDSM and/or kink

I’m also not into fluffy domestic bliss, extreme BDSM, or mpreg

Squicks: incest, non-con or underage sex, scat, bestiality, Mpreg, major violence or extreme BDSM. Touches of BDSM are fine.

General dislikes: character bashing, extreme kink

I admit to not being particularly fond of mpreg or some of the more extreme kinks

General dislikes: [...] extreme kink

no extreme kinks, like BDSM (very light power play is fine), watersports, noncon/dubcon, etc

The only real squicks I have are incest, mpreg, rape - although gray area consent is fine, and other extreme kinks.

I would prefer not to read stories with graphic violence, rape or noncon, dubious consent, child abuse, pregnancy or mpreg, or extreme kinks

don't get too extreme/hardcore with kinks

Here are some things I really don't like in fic: [...] serious bdsm

I'd rather not have any deaths or non-con/dub-con in my fic ... or any extreme BDSM stuff. Basically, no heavy kinks ... ;)

Squicks: [...] heavy BDSM

As long as there's no heavy BDSM, I'm fine. Oh, and definitely no Dom/sub stuff for me.

in terms of sexytimes if they happen, I do not enjoy non-orgasmic bodily fluids (bloodplay, scat, watersports), heavy BDSM

I don't really like heavy bdsm, non-con, death fic, or scat and anything of that sort.

I'm not that keen on [...] heavy BDSM

There are a few things I don't like, too: betrayal/adultery, humiliation, possessiveness, non-con, incest, heavy bsdm.

I'm squicked by many heavy kinks

Things I generally prefer not to read [...]: heavy kink

I don't want anything with a terribly unhappy ending, threesome, or heavy kink, please.

DISLIKES! [...] Things that get much kinkier than light bdsm.

really hardcore kinky is also not my thing

No BDSM or hardcore kinks, please

Stuff I don’t like: this list is really short, as I’m pretty hard to squick :) Hardcore kinks. Mpreg.

no major squicks except incest and really hardcore kinks

General dislikes: I'm not really into hardcore kink, or non-con, or humiliation.

Dislikes: mpreg, non-con, hardcore bdsm

hardcore BDSM mostly makes me laugh.

Dislikes include - any sort of non-con, BDSM (if it's mild it's okay but anything hardcore just doesn't work for me), incest of any kind, bloodplay and ... I think that's about it, actually.

the next rung of that ladder would be the "not my cup of tea" level, including hardcore bdsm, torturefic, mpreg, and genderfuck.

Things I Don't Like: Really intense violence, torture, non-con, hardcore BDSM, non-canon death, etc. I think you can get the idea.

squicks: death, mpreg, hardcore fetishes and heavy bdsm, humiliation, rape/noncon, extreme gore.

My only real squicks are non-con and hard kink (BDSM).

I'd prefer to avoid noncon and most hard kink

When it comes to kinky stuff, I don’t like anything too hard and extreme

There are very few things that I absolutely don't like, so here's a short list: dub-con/rape, infidelity, hard kinks, pregnancies and co.

would rather no femslash and no very strong kink

I don't really like super-kinky things

There are only a very few things that I really DON'T like to read in a fic, and avoid whenever I can [...] Seriously Kinky Sex

I don't mind sex, as long as it's not excessively kinky

I prefer my smut not exceptionally kinky.

nothing too kinky, please

My turn-offs are OOC, non-con and rape, uke-seme clichés, stuff that's too kinky like BDSM

there is such a thing as too much kink (keep it light if you go that route, please)

I enjoy some good smut: slash, femmeslash, het, threesomes, all pairings are welcome. But as for the acts themselves, I don't care for anything too kinky (No bondage, dom/sub, really any practice suffixed with the word -play).

I also don't like the more out there types of porn. So please, no pegging or felching or anything more out there than a little light bondage

Type 3: No Scat, Please

General things I really don't like [...] watersports kink (dude, just ew)

No poop or pee, please.

About the only things I won't read are character bashing, dub/non-con, any kind of sex involving pee or poop, furry/anthro fic, or deathfic.

I'm not particularly into bodyswap, genderswap, mpreg, hurt/comfort or things involving urine and poop.

My only squicks are watersports/scat/Roman showers, incest, and underage

please no scat or watersports.

Things That Make Me...Less Happy [...] Scat, golden showers and beastiality. Perhaps a rare thing to be offered during Yuletide, or any general challenge for that matter, but I like to cover my bases.

Things I don't particularly like: incest, rapefic & nonconsensual sex scenes meant to titillate, mpreg, watersports, scat

3) Just say no to the following kinks: scat, water sports, felching, necrophilia, bestiality
4) Just say no to the following fandom subgenres: mpreg, wingfic, gender switch

General Dislikes: Gratuitous angst. Crossovers. Character death. Self-mutilation. Non-con, dub-con, rape, or anything in that spectrum. Scat. Watersports. M!Preg.

I don't want scat or golden showers or vomit.

I'm pretty squicked by watersports and blood play.

Dislikes (please do not include): - Scat, watersports, bestiality, infantalism

As for squicks, those would have to be as follows: extreme pedophilia, geriatriphilia, scat, water sports, bestiality, the likes.

Dislikes. [...] - Rape, mpreg, watersports.

Things that squick me: [...] bloodplay/waterplay/scatplay/bestiality/necrophilia

I do have squicks, however. Death stories, dub-con, non-con/rape, domestic discipline, scat play, blood play or watersports are the major ones.

General Dislikes: Mpreg, furry, het, pedo, scat

please try to avoid watersports, scat, dubcon, noncon and rapefic

Some things I don't like are: rape, slavery, gratuitous unhappy endings, infidelity, scat, watersports, and generally depressing things.

I'd appreciate it if you didn't include scat, vomit, water sports, non-con, dub-con and underage characters paired with adults.

Kinks/things I don't like: Daddy/puppy/pony play. Drug use. Humiliation. Necrophilia. Genderswitch. Songfics. Incest. Male pregnancy. Scat. Waterspots. Extreme/hard bondage or BDSM.

In general, I dislike death fic, unresolved angst, non-con, rape, cheating, bdsm, scat, watersports,

Things I am not so fond of: Incest, BDSM, scat, watersports or necrophilia.

If you end up writing sex, please keep it between consenting adults, and a little bit of kink is fine, but I dislike non-con, dub-con, scat, and watersports.

I'll be very much obliged if you could possibly avoid the following: Rape (can't read it at all), incest, infidelity, golden showers/scat/munging

[...] and no munging whatever that is.

I’m also pretty prudish so please nothing particularly kinky like scat, watersports etc. Also, weird fandom things like mpreg? No thank you.

Squicks: vomit, scat, mpreg, non-con

when it comes to sex stuff I don't like necrophilia or anything that deals with bodily excrement.

Things that will squick me out are adultery, self-harm, incest, kinks involving bodily fluids other than semen (i.e. vomit, urine, feces, ect.)

What I don't like? Hm...I don't like chan/incest, hardcore BDSM, bestiality, any bodily fluids other than ones normally found in sex, death, darkfic or excessive humiliation/embarrassment.

As for generalities, I don't like non-con, anything with bodily fluids not generally associated with sex,

Squicks: scat/water-sports/bloodplay/bodily fluids

no fluids that aren't sexual, no falling in love with rapists, no explicit D/s - bondage is fine though

Things I really dislike are [...] things that touch my squicks or triggers. These include scat, body secretions, vomit

I do not like [...] sex that involves bodily functions [Me: No breathing! No orgasm!]

[Okay, I lied. One comment: seriously, how often do people write watersports for people who haven't asked for it in fic exchanges? I have seen two scat stories in my entire fannish life, and I have read a lot of kink fic. So, since the answer is pretty much never, what are people really defending against here?]

Comments

[were_duck]

:(

[eruthros]

Very :(

[cathexys]

Yes, where oh where is the crazy tide of scat and watersports...I read A LOT and I read of lot of serious kink and...yeah, it's been more than two scat and probably a few dozen watersports, but then they're not exchange fics for crying out loud!

I feel so out there with my only squick being extreme domesticity and curtain fic WITH NO OTHER PURPOSE...because I can handle my sex for sex's sake...but not the domesticity for its own sake. Dude, i live it--I don't need to read about it :)

[cathexys]

And now I'm thinking I may have actually written that myself once. And maybe it's a limit thing, i.e., if you explain that this is where you get uncomfortable then it's made clear that everything up to that is OK. I.e., knifeplay or watersports or whatever is explicitly OK when you state no scat... hm. Of course that would assume that there's a more or less generally accepted trajectory of kinks...which is exactly not how either kinks or squicks work...

[torachan]

I see this all the time in pretty much every fic exchange. It's like people believe that if you don't state up front how OMG GROSS scat and watersports are, that will be the first choice for people to write. idek.

I also like (or "like") the one where pegging is apparently super kinky (more so than "light" bondage!).

This one is rageinating: "I am not into humiliation or hurt. I like my BDSM cooperative (both parties getting off) and fun-kinky, not "Oh, crap, what" kinky."

[eruthros]

Oh man, if you "like" the pegging one, let me tell you that I saw one in passing that caused great WTF that was something like "no kinky dildos or toys for women." Baffling! Dildos are now v. kinky I guess.

Yeah, I don't know if people are actually worried about getting scat fic, or if they're worried about seeming to be into scat fic. Because the first seems... really unlikely to me!

[cesare]

I think what 'no scat or necro' really means is 'I have read other lists of kink preferences and these seem to be the common outer boundaries so I will include them to indicate the cursory level of thought that has really gone into my list.'

[eruthros]

Yes, exactly! There are all these people who make lists of kinks I like/kinks I don't like, and I didn't pull anything out from those -- those are folks who are thinking about their kinks and what they like and if they don't like watersports, fine! But when it's just the scat-watersports list and no other reference to kink, or something like "no hardcore kinks," it reads like it's a very unthoughtful statement. And it's a statement that, because it doesn't feel thought out, actually leaves me no space to write "kink." Like, can I write bondage if you say no-really-kinky-stuff? Fisting? Where's the line? What's really kinky?

[livrelibre]

Yeah. When you see it all stacked up like that. . .whew! I get that the post says to state your squicks but there are a lot of troubling and painful assumptions there.

[eruthros]

Yeah :(

[sasha_feather]

Also, weird fandom things like mpreg? No thank you.

Weird fandom things? Isn't everything in fandom "weird"? Weird is where we live, c'mon! Weird is where it's AT!

[...] and no munging whatever that is.

OK, that one made me laugh, and now I have to look it up.

[eruthros]

Yes, this! And one person's weird is another person's "whee!"

The munging one is just amazing, because it's so amazingly clearly boundary policing -- saying something squicks you without knowing what it even IS!

[anatsuno]

So depressing.

It cured me of the lingering desire to give Yuletide a try though, which is good, as I would inevitably default and hate myself! *g*

[eruthros]

This makes me sad, though, anatsuno! Because I kind of want you to get in there and tentacle and kinkfic it up. :)

But, yeah, the chance of pulling someone who says things like "nothing gross" is a consideration, and I wonder what I'd do if it happened to me.

[blushingflower]

if it has a "play" attached, no thank you, seriously.

OK, fine, no knifeplay, no fireplay, no waxplay, but also, no foreplay? Lots of things have "play" attached.

I shouldn't read this post, because I know that people are allowed to like whatever they like, but I sometimes can't help but be offended when people say they're squicked by things I don't just like to read about, but like to do.

But this one made me laugh: I’m also not into fluffy domestic bliss, extreme BDSM, or mpreg. If someone wrote me a Yuletide (or other) story that featured both extreme BDSM and fluffy domestic bliss, I would cradle it to my bosom and love it forever. (Mpreg's not my thing, though I would be cool with it if it was done well)


My Yuletide letter ends with "So aim for sweet, or silly, or really really dirty, and we'll be all good (if you can get all three in the same story, I'll kiss your feet)." There are specific sex acts I sometimes don't like to read, but I usually save that detailed a list of turn-ons and turn-offs for people I'm actually considering sleeping with.

I can understand saying you don't like a particular sub-genre or common fandom trope, because those things pop up, and given free rein I might write a hurt/comfort D/s fic that ended with fluffy domestic bliss and lots of kinky sex, because to me that would be a perfect story (and a perfect life). But some of the "no watersports" or whatever is, IMHO, a way of saying "I'm open-minded, but not a freak." You see it within the kink community too: Peruse fetlife or similar sometime and you'll see a lot of "my limits are the usual" which means "watersports, scat, and kids." Though sometimes replace "blood" for "watersports". Of course, you also see people saying they like bondage, spanking and sexy leather outfits but "nothing too extreme" in this way that comes across as judgmental of people who like humiliation or bloodplay or whatever.

My only hard limit in fic is bad writing.

[eruthros]

You are totally right -- it's totally about indicating "open-minded but not a freak." Instead of saying, quite reasonably, these are things I like/these are things I don't like. It's totally that kind of boundary policing that makes me sad.

As gloss points out below, no -play sort of means "no fun." (No nippleplay!)

I think there should be more fluffy domestic extreme BDSM! It would be awesome!

Also: I think that a lot of people really don't think of kinky as an identity category. It's just a set of practices, right? So when people say "extreme kinks are icky," I don't think they realize that they are saying, by implication, not just that I have gross kinds of sex, but that I am myself gross. And if just one person said it, I'd be like "well, whatever," but when I page through the yuletide letters and over and over and over something that is really important to me is treated like something disgusting, something extra people just put into stories for shock value not because they like it, I feel ... ugh.

[gloss]

non-orgasmic bodily fluids
No saliva, sweat, or vaginal lubrication! ...ouch.

The constant rejection of watersports makes me really sad. I mean, all of this makes me really sad, but especially the watersports. And the recurring "no -play of any kind". We like our sex STERN and SRS.

[torachan]

Well, vaginal lubrication would mean there were icky girls involved, so of course that's right out!

[cereta]

You know, the only reason I could see putting "no scat" or something similar is that I asked for not just a children's show, but a really young children's show, and past experience tells me that's the kind of thing that makes people want to go as, erm, adult as possible.

[eruthros]

Right, and there are certainly people who want to do some childhood ruining porn. I thought your letter handled that really well, though, by saying that you wanted in-the-spirit-of and not subversive, or whatever the phrase was. And I've seen a couple other letters that say that sort of thing -- which seems to me to be more crucial anyway, because if you say "no watersports" you can still get kinky porn, because all you've ruled out are specific kinks instead of a mood/tone!

[sineala]

...Well, there was that Care Bears fic. I think maybe people are just afraid they'll get that one.

Reading that list, I have discovered that I wouldn't be squicked by necrophilia. Or watersports! I have read some very good watersports stories! I do not see either of them as particularly appropriate for anything I requested, though.

My experience reading Yuletide letters is that I am generally heartened to find that the rest of fandom has an embarrassment squick, too.

*wonders idly what munging is*

[bossymarmalade]

I think maybe people are just afraid they'll get that one

And then there's some of us who WISH AND HOPE AND PRAY that they'll get that one. *g*

[isagel]

I keep wondering what my Yuletide writer will make of my statement that D/s and D/s undertones make me very happy even in non-sexual relationships. If my writer is one of the above people, they may be really confused right about now.

So many of the statements about bodily fluids make absolutely no sense. Biology lessons, y/y?

I think in general, and not just in regard to this, people should be more wary that the thing they don't like might be the thing their writer likes best in the world. The most potentially hurtful phrasing to me in this list are the sentences that start with "Just say no to the following", because it feels so much like an edict and an admonishment that doesn't just go for this challenge. The one DYW letter I've seen so far that I'm most happy isn't for me is one where the person says she absolutely doesn't want stories where nothing happens. There was something about the aggressive tone in which she said it that made me think she'd hate every thing I'd ever written.

[eruthros]

Re: your yt request, I love non-sexual (or non-orgasmic) kink stories! I'm intrigued by your request. :)

Also, yes, I think people just don't have a sense of what they are saying actually being a thing people do or identify as, and not "just" a thing people read about.

[monanotlisa]

Much like you, I imagine, what's making me scoff at the writers of those is the underlying assumption that the sexual acts/habits/desires they like are fine but everything else out there is likely to cross over into an "extreme kink," which is oh-so-naturally gross or morally wrong(ish).

Since a vague disclaimer is nobody's friend, I was very specific in my SGA Santa request: YAY to the BD part of BDSM, NAY to the SM part. Differentiation matters, I think, because as the above shows, even in generally good-natured and play-it-safe fic exchanges, folks seem to have a hard time imagining that other people might have, you know: OTHER thoughts, ideas, and preferences.

[eruthros]

Yeah, that's basically where I'm coming from -- this difficulty with the idea that the natural limits, the difference between hardcore and softcore, is so obvious. (Trufax: I totally decided to figure out what kinks on kink bingo were hardcore and which were softcore, and then all the time I would give people cards only to have them say "yay fucking machines, boo foot fetish" or "yay watersports, boo food." Personal scales!)

IMO, there's no reason not to be (carefully) specific about personal preferences. Especially because the other direction from the above is the "oh, obviously you wouldn't do anything I wouldn't like, because you're a reasonable person! I don't need to list things I don't like!" Which, also, ugh. Way to assume the naturalness and near-universality of your own fic-preferences.

[toujours_nigel]

*goes back to read own yuletide letter*

I put in that I didn't want glamourised rape/violnce, because I'd just read rape stories that supressed the non-con aspect entirely, and that. sort of seems pointless, because if you want to write rough sex and/or BDSM, why must you make one of the pair withhold consent?

And... huh, I barred twincest in one fandom, because, well, I can't see these two doing that, and it's a common trope.

[eruthros]

This post made me go back and reread my letter, too! Basically, though, I think there're big differences between a thought-out letter that describes things the author finds squicky/problematic (as you say about rape) and a letter that comes off as just vague boundary policing (as with the ones prohibiting "hardcore" kinks).

[theleaveswant]

Thank you so much for doing this, it can't have been all that fun.

A friend and I are scheming about setting up a comm on LJ dedicated to getting people to think about and embrace their/our kinks (sometimes I ship us/them?), and specifically to undermining habits like this--the negativity, the vagueness, the policing. We probably won't open the first challenge until February 1st, but it would be nice to get some input from you and T'wings and fellow kink enthusiactivists in the meantime, and maybe borrow a few pages from the Kink Bingo playbook?

[eruthros]

I started compiling them when I was going through letters looking for fun prompts -- so I'm sorry to say that this is not a really complete listing even of the ones I saw.

That sounds like an interesting community, and I'd be happy to help/chat about it; I'm on lj's jabber as eruthros, or can be pm'ed or whatever.

[nashira]

I'm not sure if I should be deeply amused or horrified. Or grateful for the parts of fandom I tend to float too.

A twisted part of me wants to ask if "heavy kinks" is like dripping a piano on someone to see how many kinks you can put in their spinal column... :D

Also, if you don't like more than "very light bondage" why not just say that's your limit? [frowns] Sense, fandom lacks it.

[nashira]

...dropping, not dripping. Silly wax fetish interfering with my spelling. :D

(don't mind the semi-random passer by. <3)

[secondsilk]

I'm sure I've done this. I'm going to have to think carefully about the list of things I like and things I don't.

I don't like to limit people to what it occurs to me to say I like, but I don't trust anyone to write things that are not my kinks in a way that I appreciate them. I have certainly read things that it would never occur to me to seek out and have enjoyed the story, the kink's role in the story and the kink itself, which means that I'm aware of how far past my own experiences writers can go. But while I'm theoretically up for anything, I'm not so practically.

Is it a strange sort of side effect of people feeling that they should be up for anything/accepting of all kinks? instead of people being clear of their own limits and not ashamed to know and own those limits.

Reading the comments now and thinking about my letter, I think for the issue in phrasing it was that the tone I was looking for/expecting from the stories was not the tone that goes with the kinks I like. So, I would have had to write a whole algorithm to work out which elements of a story go with which others. Or, "Watersports work for me when xyz or when character A blah, but not if it's character D or in conjunction with power play. etc etc." It was easier just to say, "No watersports."

(Although "watersports eww" is people thinking of the worst sort of watersports they can image, not doing the requires thinking of not doing that, and perhaps many people don't care about kink enough to put that effort into rereading what they've implied.)

[implicated2]

Oh man. Here from naraht's Yuletide links post, and THANK YOU for rounding these up. Finding these lines in people's request letters so bums me out, but there is something about the tedious repetition of putting them together that defangs them.

(I got a request letter in a recent Yuletide where the recipient stated that she wasn't into D/s because she believed in equality... I wrote something that I think worked for both of us, but yikes.)

[eruthros]

Wow, ouch, that letter would be so terrible :( I always worry about defaulting not because I can't write the character or whatever, but because I can't get over the kink stuff in the letter.